The Meeting commenced at 1105 hours with the following attending:
Name Representing
Mick Day (Chairman)
Elsie Little Cambrian C. C.
Martin Laverty Grwp Ogofeydd Garimpeiros
Nig Rogers South Wales C. C.
Paul Stacey Croydon C. C.
Chris Densham Oxford University C. C.
John Cooper Chelsea S. S.
Ian Wilton-Jones Brynmawr C. C.
Boyd Potts (Secretary) Orpheus C. C.
Huw Jones (Permit Secretary) Morgannwg C. C.
Alistair Garman Draenen Diggers
Tim Long (Conservation Officer)
Spencer Drew (Treasurer)

and also Judith Calford. John Stevens and Arthur Millet.


(a) The Chairman introduced his observations paper, previously circulated, this to be used and discussed during the progress of the meeting.

1. (b) Everyone in attendance was then asked to introduce themselves to the meeting.

Apologies were received from

Sue Mabbett and Alan Wood (S.W.C.C.); Dave Lewis (Cwmbran C. C.): Frank Baguley (Cambrian C.C.)

There was no representative from Wessex C. C. or Bristol E.C.

Revised Minutes of 14th. July meeting

3. (a) Noted that the J.C. referred to in ihe Minutes is '.John Cooper'.

3. (b) Noted that as agreed in the Minutes, the word 'Survey' should not be in the heading of 'S' in the 2nd. Draft Constitution.

3. (c) Much general discussion men ensued before it was agreed unanimously That the Minutes he accepted as a true and correct record. prop Tim Long sec John Cooper

Formal Establishment of the Pwll Du Cave Management Group.

4. (a) There was a discussion on the difference between Biannual and Biennial: noted that we hold two meetings a year but a General Meeting once every two years.

4. (b) There was a discussion on the relevance of 4.7 in the Constitution. Finally prop. Elsie Little, sec. John Cooper:

That the whole of 4.7 he replaced by: 'fill occasional vacancies among the Officers from members of the group, or if not available, from outside.

This was agreed unanimously.

Tim Long prop.. sec. Nig Rogers: That item 4 be accepted. This was agreed unanimously.

That the Bristol Exploration Club; Brynmawr Caving Club; Chelsea Speleological Society; Croydon Caving Club; Cwmbran Caving Club; Draenen Diggers; Grwp Ogofeydd Garimpeiros; Morgannwg Caving Club; Orpheus Caving Club; Oxford University Cave Club; South Wales Caving Club; and Wessex Caving Club: being formally constituted caving clubs having a common interest in the exploration and conservation of the caves and environment centred on Ogof Draenen: consent to the establishment of a formally constituted committee to be named the "Pwll Ddu Cave Management Group" on which each shall be represented to promote that common interest.'

The Pwll Du Cave Management Group is thus formally established.

Formal adoption of the Constitution.

Noted that the 2nd. Draft dated 14 July 1996 had already been circulated.

A discussion on the acceptance of new clubs. Agreed that this was covered under items 5.1 and 5.2.

A long discussion was held on the election and voting rights of Officers. Noted that we need to obtain the Officers from as many different clubs as possible. Finally prop. Tim Long, sec. Boyd Potts: That we insert at the beginning of 5.6: 'Officers will be elected by the group and be eligible to vote. No person shall have more than one vote.' This was agreed with one abstention. Discussion on the appointment of possible additional Officers. Agreed that we co-opt where necessary. The uses of the words 'members', 'Officers' and 'representatives' were discussed but no concensus agreed. It was suggested:

(i) That we let the Constitution run for a while and try to resolve ambiguities as we progress.

(ii) That we adopt the present Constitution and then at the next Biennial Meeting look at a revised version.

(iii) Proposed and agreed; That next June be the first Biennial General Meeting, and that the secretary prepare a revised Constitution to be brought to that Meeting.

It was discussed and agreed mat:

(i) Surveying should come under section 8. entitled research.

(ii) Exchange of Grade 2 survey information should come under Cave Management procedures rather than in the Constitution.

At this point tlie Chairman suggested that we adopt the Constitution. Prop. Spencer Drew, sec. Elsie Little: That the Constitution be formally adopted. This was agreed unanimously.

Item 7 was then taken before Item 6.

Clarification of Member Authority.

After discussion it was agreed that we do not need formal written clarification.

Registration of Member Clubs Representatives.

These were checked and are listed in the attendance list at the beginning of these minutes.

There was then a 30 minute adjournment. Meeting recommenced at 1335 hours.

Ratification of Appointment of Officers.

The Meeting agreed to ratify all the appointments including Mick Day as Chairman.

Reports, and Duties based on previously circulated paper.

9. (a) Secretarial duties agreed.

9. (b) Treasurer's duties agreed. The Treasurer's report is attached.

(i) Noted that the future uses of finances have to be decided but obviously we have to finance the working of the group and the maintenance of the cave.

(ii) A grant towards conservation and research in the cave has already been applied for, from the Brecon Beacons National Park.

(iii) Two signatories on cheques. Also need to check the tax situation.

(iv) Future funding: how are we to raise money? May need to review this and look for new ways of funding in the future.

At present all funds, including new gate costs, are coming via Morgannwg C. C. This obviously will not continue.

9. (c) Permit Secretary. Duties agreed. Report already circulated.

(i) Must maintain a log book in the cave both for research and checks.

(ii) Discussion on policy over access and gating.

(iii) Draft paper then circulated on loan key procedures Discussion on age, competency and club membership. Suggested that H.J. take note of comments made, and other cave access procedures. for when he re-drafts the present access paper. Also after discussion it was agreed unanimously That the cave should not be used for Commercial Purposes without consultation. Prop. Nig Rogers, sec. Ian Wilton-Jones.

(iv) Draft paper then circulated on Permanent Key procedures.

Discussion on who should hold permanent keys. Is it up to the Permit secretary or the Group to decide? Suggested that Key holders should be asked to be members of the Group or at the very least to give a report to the Group on their activities. Agreed that H.J. goes ahead with any redrafting necessary on these two papers.

9. (d) Conservation Officer. Duties agreed. Report Attached. T.L. produced a Draft Conservation Policy Document (copies from T.L.). this was circulated and time taken to read.

Various items debated.

(i) Agreed carbide be prohibited and also that smoking be strongly discouraged.

(ii) A policy is needed on taping. Agreed that discoveries should be taped as soon as possible. Information needed on where tape is lacking or needs modification.

(iii) A few items missing from the Document such as guidelines on Camping or information on Rescue Dumps, etc.

It was agreed that T.L.'s document is an excellent piece of work and with a few amendments be fully supported by the Group.

Establishment of additional Officers.

(a) Geological Recorder.

(b) Biological Recorder.

(c) Survey Secretary. It was proposed by John Cooper, seconded by Huw Jones: That these three posts be established. This was agreed unanimously.

Rhian Hicks was confirmed as Biological Recorder.

Ali Garman was confirmed as Survey secretary.

Proposed Ian Wilton-Jones, seconded Paul Stacey That the post of Geological recorder he offered to Mike Simms or Andy Farr.


There was then a discussion on the duties of a Survey Secretary and arrangements for the use of data. John Cooper stated that data going into the Survey Secretary should keep its original copyrights. The grade 2 data should only be used with the permission of the Group for financial gain hut could be used by anyone else for non-gainful purposes.

Noted that the Chelsea S. S. would like to use grade 2 information where no grade 5 is available. Also comments made that if the data is used commercially then there should be some monetary return to the Group finances.

There was also discussion on what survey information should be in the communal 'pot'. Finally it was left in the hands of A.G. to try and formulate a future survey policy.

At this point, due to the imminent closure of the room, the date of the next meeting was agreed, to be in June 1997, hopefully at the same venue.

The meeting closed at 1646 hours

Boyd Potts,